As part of this project, and I’m very happy to say this, I took on the
reverse: to translate some Ukrainian poets into Hebrew. And one of the
poets that I chose was Vasyl Stus.
Iryna Slavinska: I think that translating such poetry into Hebrew would be very complicated.
Victor Radutzky: That’s putting it mildly. But this is the most fascinating work that I have done in recent years. All literary translations are generally complicated. If the translation is simple, then the text is not worthy. As for the translation of Stus, I sent what I had translated to our renowned poet Ronny Someck, so that he would say what he sees in it. He returned the text and wrote to me saying that I should contact this literary periodical and tell them that he was asking them to publish it.
And they compiled a selection entitled Translations of World Poetry. The pages were practically A3 size. I wrote a short introduction because people don’t know about Stus, and I sent a photograph. And they published all this. I will present this at the discussion. Vasyl Stus was published in Hebrew among the most prominent poets in the world. If someone publishes a bilingual collection, I am in favor of having the original and the translation appear side by side. Stus’s language is wonderful. A remarkable poet! I even think that for capturing all these associations and images, he is difficult to read in Ukrainian.
Iryna Slavinska: I think that translating such poetry into Hebrew would be very complicated.
Victor Radutzky: That’s putting it mildly. But this is the most fascinating work that I have done in recent years. All literary translations are generally complicated. If the translation is simple, then the text is not worthy. As for the translation of Stus, I sent what I had translated to our renowned poet Ronny Someck, so that he would say what he sees in it. He returned the text and wrote to me saying that I should contact this literary periodical and tell them that he was asking them to publish it.
And they compiled a selection entitled Translations of World Poetry. The pages were practically A3 size. I wrote a short introduction because people don’t know about Stus, and I sent a photograph. And they published all this. I will present this at the discussion. Vasyl Stus was published in Hebrew among the most prominent poets in the world. If someone publishes a bilingual collection, I am in favor of having the original and the translation appear side by side. Stus’s language is wonderful. A remarkable poet! I even think that for capturing all these associations and images, he is difficult to read in Ukrainian.
Iryna Slavinska: A translation is not a conversion of words from
one language into another. Often you end up in a situation where it is
necessary to translate the entire culture, with all the coded things
that might be in it. And speaking about the work on Vasyl Stus’s texts,
where the issue is about translating him into Hebrew, or on translations
of Amos Oz into Ukrainian with the need to translate all this culture
as well, how do you work with this?
Victor Radutzky: You must understand that every translation into a different language is the problem of translating the culture. For example, I became acquainted with a female translator of Oz’s who is translating this in China. I ask her: What is it to the Chinese how we were building and defending the state in 1947 and when seven Arab states began advancing against us in order to crush us? What do they understand about this? And she says a wonderful thing: feelings. If you can translate feelings, then you have translated the text. For me, translating a culture is translating feelings. When I was reading Stus and saw his sufferings, how he is not repenting… he knows that he is doing everything correctly. He had only one thing: that his son did not understand him at first. This was his great pain. With a photograph of my son in front of me, I translated feelings. And in this case, Hebrew has great advantages over other languages.
Iryna Slavinska: What are they?
Victor Radutzky: Because our entire literature is constructed on feelings. If you open up the “Song of Songs,” Ecclesiastes, the “Proverbs of Solomon,” the prophets Amos and Isaiah, all this is feelings, not just events. And feelings can be translated. This is the most fundamental basis, ensuring that a translation can be completed.
I know some things that cannot be translated, say, the Russian writer [Andrei] Platonov. He is almost impossible to translate into any language. You can translate feelings. But a translation that does a good job of conveying both feelings and language, that is the most successful translation. But this happens rarely. For example, all of Russian poetry has been translated into Hebrew: [Fyodor] Tiutchev, Pushkin,[Nikolai] Nekrasov. Everything you may want. There is an anthology of Russian poetry that has been translated into Hebrew. Alexander Sergeevich [Pushkin] is not world-famous because no one can translate him. He has great renown in Hebrew because of a successful translation. And I thought that this was the acme of translation. But, no!
Now young translators with a young language and youthful feelings have appeared. And they did two translations of Eugene Onegin into Hebrew. I have never seen such beauty! That is poetry. And that’s why I think that if you were able to translate feelings, then you have created a translation. But if you are fluent in the language as well and you convey in a beautiful language, this is a translation.
Victor Radutzky: You must understand that every translation into a different language is the problem of translating the culture. For example, I became acquainted with a female translator of Oz’s who is translating this in China. I ask her: What is it to the Chinese how we were building and defending the state in 1947 and when seven Arab states began advancing against us in order to crush us? What do they understand about this? And she says a wonderful thing: feelings. If you can translate feelings, then you have translated the text. For me, translating a culture is translating feelings. When I was reading Stus and saw his sufferings, how he is not repenting… he knows that he is doing everything correctly. He had only one thing: that his son did not understand him at first. This was his great pain. With a photograph of my son in front of me, I translated feelings. And in this case, Hebrew has great advantages over other languages.
Iryna Slavinska: What are they?
Victor Radutzky: Because our entire literature is constructed on feelings. If you open up the “Song of Songs,” Ecclesiastes, the “Proverbs of Solomon,” the prophets Amos and Isaiah, all this is feelings, not just events. And feelings can be translated. This is the most fundamental basis, ensuring that a translation can be completed.
I know some things that cannot be translated, say, the Russian writer [Andrei] Platonov. He is almost impossible to translate into any language. You can translate feelings. But a translation that does a good job of conveying both feelings and language, that is the most successful translation. But this happens rarely. For example, all of Russian poetry has been translated into Hebrew: [Fyodor] Tiutchev, Pushkin,[Nikolai] Nekrasov. Everything you may want. There is an anthology of Russian poetry that has been translated into Hebrew. Alexander Sergeevich [Pushkin] is not world-famous because no one can translate him. He has great renown in Hebrew because of a successful translation. And I thought that this was the acme of translation. But, no!
Now young translators with a young language and youthful feelings have appeared. And they did two translations of Eugene Onegin into Hebrew. I have never seen such beauty! That is poetry. And that’s why I think that if you were able to translate feelings, then you have created a translation. But if you are fluent in the language as well and you convey in a beautiful language, this is a translation.
В рамках цього проекту я взяв на себе зворотну частину: перекласти деяких українських поетів на іврит. І серед тих поетів, яких я обрав, був Василь Стус.
Ірина Славінська: Я думаю, що перекладати таку поезію на іврит мало бути дуже складно.
Віктор Радутський: Це м’яко кажучи. Але це найцікавіша праця з тих, що я робив останні роки. Усі переклади загалом складні. Якщо простий переклад, то текст того не вартий. Щодо перекладу Стуса: я звернувся з тим, що я переклав до нашого поета Роні Сомека, аби він сказав, що він тут бачить. Він повернув текст і написав мені, що треба звернутись до цього літературного часопису і скажи, що я просив, аби вони це видрукували.
І вони зробили таку підбірку “Переклади світової поезії”. І серед них була сторінка майже А3. Я написав коротенький вступ, бо вони ж не знають про Стуса. І все це надрукували. Я покажу це на дискусії. Серед найчильніших поетів світу надрукований Василь Стус мовою іврит. Якби хтось видав двомовну збірку. Я за те, щоб поруч йшли оригінал і переклад. У Стуса прекрасна мова. Мені навіть здається, що українською його важко читати, щоб захопити усі ці асоціації та образи.
Ірина Славінська: Переклад – це не переклад слів з однієї мови на іншу. Часто ти опиняєшся у ситуації, коли всю культуру потрібно перекладати, з усіма зашифрованими штуками, які там можуть бути. І говорячи, наприклад, про роботу з текстами Василя Стуса, де йдеться на переклад на іврит або з перекладами Амоса Оза українською з потребою всю цю культури також перекласти, як ви з цим працюєте?
Віктор Радутський: Розумієте, кожен переклад на іншу мову – це проблема перекладу культури. Наприклад, я познайомився з перекладачкою того ж Оза, яка перекладає це у Китаї. Я її питаю, що цим китайцям до того, як ми будували державу у 1947 році, і коли на нас насунулось сім арабських держав, щоб нас задавити? Що вони у цьому розуміють? А вона каже чудову річ: почуття. Якщо ти можеш перекласти почуття, то переклав текст. Для мене переклад культури – це переклад почуття. Коли я читав Стуса і бачив його страждання, як він не кається. Він знає, що все робить правильно. У нього було лише одне: що його син спочатку його не розумів. Це у нього був такий біль. Саме перед світлиною мого сина я й перекладав почуття. А іврит у цьому випадку має великі переваги перед іншими мовами.
Ірина Славінська: Які?
Віктор Радутський: Тому що вся наша література збудована на почуттях. Якщо ви відкриваєте “Пісню пісень”, “Екклезіаст”, “Приповідки Соломона”, пророка Амоса, Ісаю. Це все почуття. Не лише події. І почуття можна перекласти. Це і є найгрунтовніша база для того, щоб переклад можна було здійснити.
Я знаю деякі речі, що не можна перекласти. От, скажімо, російський письменник Платонов. Його майже неможливо перекласти на жодну з мов. Можна перекласти почуття. Але переклад, який добре передає і почуття, і мову – це вдалий переклад. Але так буває рідко. На іврит, скажімо, перекладена уся російська поезія: Тютчев, Пушкін, Некрасов. Є антологія перекладена на іврит. Олександр Сергійович не має світової слави, бо ніхто не може це перекласти. Велика слава є у нього в івриті через вдалий переклад. І я думав, що це вершина перекладу. А ні!
Зараз знайшлись молоді перекладачі з молодою мовою та почуттями. І зробили два переклади Євгенія Онєгіна мовою іврит. І я такої краси ще не бачив. Оце поезія. І тому мені здається, що якщо ти зміг перекласти почуття, то зробив переклад. А якщо ще й мовою володієш і передаєш красивою мовою – це і є переклад.
Aucun commentaire:
Enregistrer un commentaire